PUBLIC MEETING AT BENJAMIN GOTT HIGH SCHOOL 7-30 P.M. MONDAY 9TH JANUARY 1989 CALLED BY THE U.D.C. TO DISCUSS OUTLINE PLANNING APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY MOUNTLEIGH NORTHERN LIMITED WITH RESPECT TO DEVELOPMENT IN THE KIRKSTALL VALLEY (APPLICATION REF. NO. 88/26/00368)
Peter Hartley
He outlined the role of the UDC and introduced Board Members present. He emphasised that Members of the Board "were not political stooges". He apologised for the absence of Board Members who were away on business and noted apologies from five Ward Members from Armley and Kirkstall Wards, who could not be present because of the election of a new Leader for Leeds City Council.
The background to the Mountleigh submission was outlined. Mountleigh and the LCDC were partners in this development proposal. Mr. Hartley had had several conversations with Councillor Mudie "who had pleaded to him that the UDC should not become involved in the application for the Kirkstall Valley". Mr. Hartley went on to say that "if we had our way, we would be looking at something different today". Leeds City Council had put out a competition brief last year, the winners were Mountleigh together with the LCDC. No member of the UDC Board or their officers had shares in Mountleigh. Since the last public meeting in December 1988, the UDC had passed on the public's views to the developers. "As someone who has driven through places like Kirkstall for 35 years, nobody can argue that it doesn't need improving."
The UDC had commissioned a totally independent study from a firm of consultants with no axe to grind and who will put options and proposals to the Board. 'The UDC had no quarrel with anyone in the room - or outside the room." It wished to see the best use of the land, much of which is derelict and wanted it developed in the best possible way and in a way that everyone would be proud of. Development will take place and not everyone will be happy. A compromise will be reached a scheme will be produced which will receive consent.
Martin Eagland
The UDC are looking at the scale of developments and would take note of the public's views. It was waiting for consultants' reports and input from the City Council's Highways Department. They will then go back to Mountleigh. The application has been advertised as a-departure. Much of the work was being undertaken by the City Council's Planning Department as an agent for the UDC. The Secretary of State could call the application in as a departure or because of the amount of retailing proposed on the site. The environmental impact analysis was expected. An opportunity would then arise for public consultation and the City Council also has an opportunity to comment.
P. Hartley
Mr. Hartley requested that if any of the 29 members of the public who spoke at the last public meeting were present and wished to speak, that they would wait until towards the end of the meeting.
John Battle M.P.
None of the local Ward representatives could be present because of urgent public business at the Civic Hall. He was concerned about their lack of opportunity to be involved in the meeting and requested Mr. Hartley to read out the six points contained in a letter from the Members that they requested should be read out to the meeting. He then went on to compare the Kirkstall situation to that of London's Docklands with respect to the promise of new jobs for the area, and suggested that just as the new job opportunities in London's Docklands had been wildly overestimated by the LDUC, a similar process was happening in Leeds.
P. Hartley
Expressed horror if some of the things that had happened in London were to happen here. He couldn't give assurance regarding jobs because he simply didn't know the answer to that question. What was expected to eventually emerge on the site was a mix of offices, warehousing, housing and shops. He had been approached the day before by a company chief executive based in the north east who wanted to reserve an office block on the Kirkstall site. Some 200-300 new jobs were involved. The Ward Members' letter was then read out, welcoming new job opportunities and expressing concern regarding the scale of retailing and traffic generation, the loss of Burley Mills, the public playing fields and the Goitside Walk. Mr. Hartley said he had no quarrel with Ward Members but saw that there was land available for jobs and housing.
Nick Nyes
How can a relocation of jobs from the city centre to Kirkstall result in an increase in job opportunities? There were plenty of local shops, the creation of more retail would simply relocate jobs on the Kirkstall Valley site.
Joe Marsden
Not too much notice should be taken of one telephone call. "You are too condescending Mr. Hartley - we want straight talking!" (Applause).
Mr. Marsh
"We can support you, you appear to be taking notice of us, unlike the Council. Hasn't their neglect resulted in the loss of Oulton Hall?" The UDC is setting the development process on its head. He drew the UDC's attention to the 1947 flood levels on the site. How much grant would be available to developers?
P. Hartley
The present development proposals had been put together by LCC and in part by Councillor Mudie. No application for grant has been made to date on the Kirkstall site, although there have been six or seven applications for grant in the other area of the UDC. "He was not in charge of the Council."
S. Kenny (Finance Director - UDC)
The UDC had a £15 million total budget to deal with highway improvements, urban programme and city grant. City Grant has been established so that grants' are available to ensure that developments which would not be viable otherwise can proceed. However, City Grant should not be considered to be a bottomless pit.
Sue Blanchard
What market research had the UDC done to ensure that the B1 and retail units did not remain empty? What is the market like for such developments in a place like Kirkstall?
Pat Fathers (Former City Councillor)
"The site is not all derelict but it is all one site. There are derelict areas within it. A wilderness of nature must not be confused with dereliction ... a green wedge is needed. It is very important to inner city residents. The letter from Ward Members has confirmed that ... what is the point of development here? ... The City Council in its stupidity had refused planning permission for a supermarket on the marshalling yards at Carcrofts, Armley ... Councillors Mudie, Gunnell and Walker don't represent West Leeds ... Supermarkets are needed elsewhere." "Develop other sites in the area, not the Valley." (Much applause).
Local Resident
The UDC has not been elected by anyone - it is interested in profit, not jobs or local people. The people in Armley already have to put up with asbestos that is there because of profit. "UDC get lost - we don't want you." (Cheers).
Dr. Halliday
He owns property in Kirkstall, etc., and wanted to object to the manner in which the meeting had been advertised. Far too few people could attend because only two days' notice had been given. "Why are we here? Wasn't it simply a public relations exercise, something to be got over and done with? " "Nicholas Ridley was the notorious Secretary of State against the Environment! ... The UDC are an unelected quango established to overrule the democratic process. The Chairman is present to benefit Mountleigh and for the glorification of his ego". Where will the road traffic go? Dr. Halliday did not wish to see Leeds "Manchesterised" with motorways everywhere. What consideration has been given to the quality of life for Leeds residents?" "The reason why Mountleigh's proposal had not been suggested for Roundhay was that there were people living there with more clout" ... "This was a classic Sir Humphrey Appleby scheme." "Yes Prime minister, you must have a meeting preferably convened at short notice so that they can let off steam after which you simply go ahead as planned!" (Cheers, cries and stamping!!!).
Local Resident
A London firm of consultants are to make an independent review. Will the Public have access to this work? What research is being done into the long term viability of retailing? "Whatever Mr. Mudie is alleged to have said to you, he is not here to answer your charges." (Cheers).
Mr. Brader
Are you aware of the independent survey of radioactivity in the Kirkstall Valley?
P. Hartley
No. we would be delighted to receive a copy. The developers have done market research. "The consultants' report is not available to the public."
Cries from the floor: "You are not serving us, you are serving your own pocket".
"Why, if you are doing a survey, won't you allow us to see it?" (Applause).
"Will you take radioactive pollution into account?" etc..
P. Hartley
"Yes, we will go back to the Board and get their views."
Cries from the floor: "If we have to pay for it (through taxation) why can't we see it?" (Applause). "One third of the extra vehicles moving to and from the site will be heavy goods. What will that do to the environment?" (Applause).
P. Hartley
We are waiting for comments from HECS.
Local Resident
"You ought to come down here when Clover has a sale. It takes me three quarters of an hour to drive from 317 Armley Ridge Road to Commercial Road." (Cheers).
Anne White
"John Jackson is wearing two hats on the Corporation (UDC and LCDC) . There are two basic elements of the quarrel. What area is derelict and once that is resolved what type of jobs will be provided-on the site? We want skilled employment not jobs shifted from the city centre or low paid temporary work."
Local Resident
"What consideration is being given to noise levels from the site? We can hear noise in our homes coming from the other side of the Valley."
M. Croak
Three queries were raised the extent of road improvements, the amount of land used for open car parking and the conflict of interest between Leeds City Planners and the LCDC.
P. Hartley
The UDC is using the skills of City Council officers to process the application, arrange for advertisements, etc. We are making the decisions. "Some Board members have already resigned from LCDC and more resignations are expected."
Local Resident
"Democracy has been thrown out of the window. You are just whitewashing your decisions!" (Cheers).
P. Hartley
"I don't know how much land in the area is derelict."
Local Resident
Answer!! (Jeers).
P. Hartley
"I would describe derelict land as land I can't walk through as it is covered in bushes, etc." (Jeers).
Local Resident
"Put on your wellies!" (Laughter).
Local Resident
"The area can't support any more retailing. All we will get is outsiders blocking up our roads." (Applause).
Michael Meadowcroft (Former MP)
You are intending to see the site developed comprehensively as if there was nothing there. You are defending the scheme, rather than listening to what local people have to say. Are you going to put your own scheme together? (Applause and cheers).
P. Hartley
"If the existing proposals do not go ahead the UDC would go out to competitive tender based upon a brief it would issue ... The UDC will take account of what the people say."
Local Resident
Three major cities have been changed because derelict land has been turned into parkland to complement the area. "Give the Valley back to the people!" (Cheers and applause).
Local Resident
"Will you let us know the name of your consultants?"
P. Hartley
"No. (jeers).
Local Resident
"The answer is typical of the attitude of the people on the top table Why haven't you got the traffic information? ... Hard headed businessmen are ruining our environment ... Their actions are a danger to the future of humanity. The area should remain green." (Applause and cheers)
Derek Powell-
You are not properly listening to the -people here. There are different sets of needs and wants. "You must not do what the Council do - you must listen to local people." (Applause and cheers).
Local Resident
Al1 last year I enjoyed walks through the area. All we have in West Leeds that is green is this Valley. It is spiritually uplifting and environmentally attractive. If looked at very hard, sites could be found for housing, jobs will be provided to the building industry. A wonderful opportunity exists to provide an attractive setting for people Is lives. (Applause) .
Geoff Hodgson
"Before you can have public credibility you have to plan out in the open to reflect people's needs. The UDC is non-elected and is messing up our Valley without understanding it. We live here! (Much applause) . There is a clear conflict of interest . .. Commuters are not wanted in this Valley. It is our Valley. (Cheers and whistles) . You are acting in secret - why is this happening? ... We found out what is going on via our mole ... Get rid of this horrible plan and start afresh. (Cheers, clapping, etc.). Listen to the locals like us! You are only concerned with something that is going to be highly profitable. If you ignore us we will win, and you will lose!" (Applause, stamping, cheers, etc.) .
Sybil Gray
We want to see the Valley developed as a leisure park and kept green. Why do we need another leisure centre - we have already got two in the area? Concrete jungles of car parks will upset the wildlife. What type of housing will be provided? Will local people be able to afford it? (Applause) .
Local Resident
"You have spoken down to us - not listened. This meeting has served no useful purpose ... It is like a school assembly - stop acting like a headmaster!" (Cheers, stamping, whistles, etc.)
Steve Kind
"The campaign has reflected the feelings of local people. Those who oppose us accuse us of only rabble-rousing. The feelings of local people have been absolutely plain. The UDC have no excuse to say that they don't know what local people want - they don't want development in the Valley! (Cheers and applause) . What are the overwhelming considerations and overwhelming needs? The UDC should put up or shut up! (Cheers) . We are wary of the development procedures ... The UDC Board will this month effectively decide zones of development for the Valley without having seen the environmental assessment. Please don't make your decision until the information is available. (Applause). Mountleigh want retail because the UDC want it there!!! The Chairman of the Board is committed to it and in fact asked for it to be located in the position shown on the latest plans!!" (Cries of "take a vote' ... "see what the local people want" ... cheers, applause, stamping, etc. etc.).
P. Hartley
"No! I don't personally have any particularly strong views ... At the end of the day the Board will make a decision ... The purpose of this meeting is to listen to you, etc." (Jeers). "It has been a very successful meeting because we came to hear your views, and we did."
At the conclusion an uninvited member of the public asked for those present to raise their hands if they supported the scheme (Nobody did) He then requested those present who objected to the proposal to signify this an overwhelming show of hands resulted.
AJH/JB/HML/23.1.89
CIRCULATION-- Councillor Walker, JSK, NK, DL, PJV, DS, JS, AB